Bill Hoyt

I have been following these posts with a lot of interest. My experience is similar in many ways, but also different.

My life has been almost equally divided between three places. The first third was spent in the Rochester area (Irondequoit, Brighton, Pittsford). My family relocated to Miami the day after graduation. So when I finished college, I "temporarily" moved to Miami. Twenty five years later professional opportunity, and with two daughters in a very quality segmented schools, and a quality of life in the area that was dramatically different from when my parents moved, made the decision easy for me to move to Virginia in the Washington, DC suburbs. Not easy for two teens. I have lived here now for eighteen years.

Only my senior year was spent at PCS, but I was able to meet and interact with some wonderful people, and felt welcomed. Very hard for a basically introverted person. The connections have stayed with me. I was on the list of the missing until the tenth reunion rolled around, but started to show up for all of the rest. Most of the people that were important to me also made most of the reunions, so the years were bridged regardless of whether being in or away from the area. I have not had any immediate relatives living in the the area for a long time. I do have a mother-in-law in Lockport, a sister-in-law in Buffalo, and scattered cousins in Genesee and Orleans counties. So I visit western NY at least once a year.

So what draws me back? I have always been somewhat introspective and have had my share of life events that encourages introspection. As Peggy notes we are reaching the age where death is intruding on our lives more and more, be it parents, spouses, classmates, or others. What keeps drawing me back is my life was shaped by where I came from, so I have a deep and resounding connection with Rochester and western NY. PCS was for many of us a launching pad for next stages of our lives. For some it was the worst time of their lives, for others the best. For the rest of us, some of both. My parents grew up in very modest homes in Batavia and Leroy. My father the first in his family to graduate from college, then starting his career with the IRS before moving to the private sector. My mother graduated from nursing school as an RN, and worked nights when my sisters and I were very young. Life lessons and roots that had a profound influence on the man I grew into. Husband, father, step-father, flawed, curious and fortunate. 

Margo Hochuli (Hochuli Wallman Schubmehl)

     The number of deaths of our classmates in my opinion is not unusual. What is unusual is that our class has  stayed in constant communication for 48 years. That has allowed us to know when one of our classmates has died. Thanks to Kathy Lockwood Benson we also have a place to honor those who have died. We may not have  been a perfect class as far as inclusion goes but as I was told by one of our former teachers turned administrator (at my son's graduation) we were considered one of the most accepting of differences classes in Sutherland's history. My son's class of 1996 was also honored with the same distinction and there were several students in that class who were children of the class of 1969. 

Robert E. (Bob) Koster

From the same song "Just what you want to be, you will be in the end"

Ellen S. Schwalenstocker (Schwalenstocker)

Well, kudos to Andy for inspiring a very interesting discussion. It's nice to read the thoughtful posts and responses of people I knew and some I didn't know in high school.

I guess I  was one of those in-between kids in high school -  not really in, not really out. I probably won the award for the highest number of (unsuccessful) cheerleader tryouts. It does not matter! I have fond memories and some not-so-fond memories like 99.9 percent of people who make it through high school. I think the quality of the education we received at Pittsford Sutherland was on the right side of the bell curve and what we made of that foundation and the environment at the time was up to each of us.

It's funny, I recently read something that suggested that people were more likely to remember their high school friends than their college friends. When I put pen to paper, I found I could name far more people from my high school years than from my college years, despite my college years being probably my fondest memories from the further out past. That doesn't mean I had more close friendships in high school vs. college. I think the freedom of college is that you get to focus on your friends instead of the high school angst of where you stand in the sea of peers. And, yes, as I observe my 16 year old neice and recall the experiences of my now adult step daughters, I think that angst remains a rite of passage for all high schoolers (and middle schoolers) no matter what their environment is and, really, whether they are "in, out or on the edge."

I think it's important to learn from, but not regreat, the past. Still, I do regret that I haven't done a better job of keeping up with either my precous high school or my treasured college friends. I recently learned that my college roommate passed away in her 50s. She was a kind, funny and creative person who I wish I could talk to now. So, I think the deaths we are seeing posted on our Pittsford site are, alas, not at all unusual as others have said. Rest in peace to our departed classmates and know that others' memories of you mean that you mattered.

I no longer have much occasion to visit Rochester and regret not being present at the reunions (other than our 10th). It sounds like there is a treasure of experiences to learn about, and I hope to attend the 50th. Thanks to Kathy and others for making them possible.

The one thing I want to say is this. Although certain people or historical "facts" (alternative or otherwise) might make great fodder for a novel, I think we should refrain from calling out specific people in an on-line discussion unless they are on board with it. 

Dan Goodenow

Andy,

You've brought me back from the company of the dead.

Qustion:  Did you mean Mr. Dennison beacame one of oura classmates or did you mean he did something to a classmate?  I hope the former.  He was a pretty good teacher and coach.

On being "cut" from a team.  My family moved to Pittsford about a week before the start of my 8th grade and at the start of that year, it was tough making friends.  I tried out for the 8th grade baskeytball team and made it.  Instantly I had frineds.  About a week into the practics, the coach announced he had to cut 3 players because he didn't have enough uniforms.  I was one of the 3 guys and guess what, many of my new friends dissapeared.  Guess what else, within weeks, I got over it.

As for team managers, every sports team I was ever on, high school and college, respected the managers and considered them vital and teammates.  I'm sure you were appreciated more than you remember.  I was on that JV baseball team in 10th grade and don't remember anything bad going on except for maybe in my mind, me unfairly riding the pine all season.  In hind site, I could hit very well, but actually sucked in that threw the ball, as they would say back then, like a girl!  Not getting game time was one of the reasons I switched to track my last two years.

As for being "cut", you should have joined us in football or track because no one was ever cut.  In fact, with football, we had guys like like Andy Phillips that gave it a go and he was by far not the biggest player.  He did have a lot of heart and desire and that is what counted.  Over the years, I've come to the conclussion, or rationalization, whichever you prefer, that there is always someone better than you and without you, they wouldn't be better or best. In otherwords, someone has to suck for the star to be measured against and reconized as such.  It was true then and it's still true in my ova 50 ice hockey league today. I suck.  I love the game, I like the teammates, they accept me and we move on through the season and life.

As for your comment about Holly Milller's life, I hope you knew her well enough to write the conclusion you wrote.

All for now.  Carry on.

Dan

Doug P. Allen

This has been one of the most interesting discussions I've seen in years....and it brings high school days back to mind.  I especially appreciated  Ellen Schwalenstocker's comments.  What I "learned" through my high school experience was: (1) Don't ever wear loud polka-dot shirts (Ellen Bass Miller will "get" that one immediately), (2) Almost all of us experienced some insecurities - Heck, we were teenagers, so insecurities come with the territory.  (3) For many of us, we discovered that we were not the great athletes of our dreams - that's kind of a so what item, (4) And....that high school was very much a learning process.  That's because it was supposed to be that kind of experience.  

Who was on the periphery?  At times most of us probably felt like we were... What I learned from that was that if I feel insecure about something...well...hey, push through it to get to where you want to be.  

I don't regret anything about those days.  Cut from baseball TWICE?  Hmmm... that didn't exactly do damage to my future life.  Time as a baseball team manager (yep, I did that too, and I wasn't all that GREAT at it)...at least that taught me to pay attention at all times!  My time on that nerdy debate team? - It surely wasn't the popular thing to do, but what a huge boost to what I needed as an adult.  The class couple thing? That one leaves me smiling...yep, I still laugh at the Senior Class Will where someone plugged in a snarky comment about Penny and me.  

If there's one thing I wish that I could be better about would be attending some of those class reunions!!!  I've been quite a slacker about it!  Ah, that's one thing for my New Year's resolution list.

My thanks to people like Margo, who keeps in touch with everyone ;-)  and Kathy who has taken the lead on the forum, reunions, etc.  for the things they've done to ensure that we have the opportunity to do anything from saying hello to having a great forum that allows us to re-engage. 

Have a great weekend....and well, one classmate's thought?  Regret nothing, learn from everything and look forward to the future!  

Paul North (North)

Pittsford HS...I

It was a place I went during the day, but was not the center of my life. I look back now with humor and a smile.

I had some good high school friends, but after June, 1969, nothing lasting.  Fun memories:  working at Pittsford Wegmans before it became a super store;  Valentine Anzalone and band (we marched twice that I recall.  Once at a football game and onece at a Memorial day parade.  No fancy uniforms, just a school blazer, ties, and grey slack or skirts.  We did not march well.)  Greg Wolf and I posed for the drama club picture and Miss Ellis quized us if we were seriously considering being in a play.  We said "yes"  Greg and I were always in the orchestra...but I did one play as the cab drivber in "Harvey."  I didn't get to play in the Wolf, Womeldorf, Legge, Goodenow band.  No need for a french horn.  

We moved to Pittsford in the middle of my 6th grade year (Lincoln Elem).  Then on to the new Junior High out in Mendon.  I was going to try our for basketball, but Mr. Mueller told me he already had his team picked.  (I dislike basketball to this day.)  As a freshman I went out for football, but on day 2 some senior blind-sided me with a huge hit.  I went one way, my glasses another.  I decided "Music is the way."  I also tried out for the baseball team, but the day of tryouts, I broke my tailbone in gym class trying to do a flip on the pommel horse.  I could hardly walk, let alone run.  That afternoon, when I got up to bat, I hit the ball, but looked like a 90 year old trying to limp to first base.  Needless to say, I didn't make it.  So, I was the manager.  That was the year Steve Ramp and ??? ran into each other on the practice field and really hurt each other.  "Music" looked even better.  

I chose well in marriage from the Pittsford class of 1970.  45 year anniversay this past January.  4 kids, 4 grandkids.  Living on 5 acres in central Indiana, debt free, retired from teaching psycholgy and fine arts in a local university, raising chickens and rabbits.  It doesn't get any better than this.  

Indiana

(sung to the tune of “Caledonia” by Dougie MacLean:  see youtube)

I don’t know if you see the changes that come over me

When I think about

Riding out

Into the forests and the hills.

I start telling old stories, singing songs

About the places that we’ve belonged.

That’s the reason I don’t stay.

My mind simply drifts away……

Let me tell you that I love you,

And I think about you all the time.

But Indiana calls to me,

and I know that I’m home

I think about where we have lived.

Ohio, Philippines, California.

New York and Iowa, we traveled far.

But we always end up coming home.

We’ve made new friends and left the old.

Painful memories have now grown cold.

Our families’ close, old haunts are near,

We’ve grown deep roots through the years.

Let me tell you that I love you,

And I think about you all the time.

But Indiana calls to me,

and I know that I’m home

As I sit by the fire,

Relaxing warm when I tire,

I remember summer days,

Gardens growing, humid haze.

Those fevers that used to burn inside

Seems to me that they have now all died.

I am content to spend the time

On this land that I call mine….

Let me tell you that I love you,

And I think about you all the time.

But Indiana calls to me,

and I know that I’m home

Paul North (North)

Ha - I didn't hit spell check.  Sorry.

Dan Goodenow

Andy,

I feel bad that you feel you had such a terrible time at PCS.  You know that there were quite a number of shorer guys.  Danny Dodson, a pretty good friend of mine, was definately on the short side.  Dave Lund was no giant.

There were a bunch of classmates that had more serious conditions and disabilities than lack of height and made the best of their circumstances.  As for fitting into the smart kid group, I, like you was far from that.  I missed about 1/2 year in 9th grade due to illness, so yea, 3 1/2 years of HS was a great excuse.  Not applying myself wasn't the real issue, right.  As for economic, social and intelligence rankings, I remember very clearly sitting with Ellen Bass sometime after football season ended and we all started to apply for college and saying to her I wanted to marry her before shipping off to Vietnam.  As true for most of us, we all had our challenges, disappointments, successes and happiness.  I also remember very clearly sittting down with Mr. Shelly to start looking at colleges and the first words out of his mouth, and I quote. "Dan, I know I can get you into a college, but I also know you will flunk out.  Let's see what might work."

Funny thing is, in life after PCS, his words sonmetimes served as motivation.

I guess my point is that if you really think back, I bet you'll remember some great and special times.  I'd like to hear about those.

For me, even that moment sitting with Ellen, completely lost, desperately reaching out to her, (smartly on her part, not giving me an answer), just looking for some direction, thinking how I stupidly fucked things up with my poor grades, etc., leaves me with wicked fond memories.  On the other hand, I suppose that if I had not gotten into college and shipped out, I would have had some bittterness.  Life is unpredictable and not always fair for sure.  For good and bad, we mostly make our own beds and I'm okay with mine so far.  I bet you are too...

Dan

Ellen S. Schwalenstocker (Schwalenstocker)

This has all been an interesting discussion from many thoughtful people. Maybe someone shoud write a novel about a bunch of gray haired people going back to the same high school as the people they have become. 

David 0. Hughes

Well, I think all of this started with Jay's passing and the notice of that. It brought a few people out from the way past....hi Dan, Ellen, Bob, Peggy,  Paul.  Good to hear from you. Doug, not meaning to leave you out, but I see you on Facebook often. 

Andy, I cannot outdo you, and am appreciative of the perspective that you have brought.  It has made me think. The responses have also done that. So many ways of looking at the same thing.  It seems that people have made their way since without having had that particular time get in the way.  Same here.

I liked the time spent at PCS.  I was lucky enough to have gone from K through 12 there.  All of what Andy has said I noticed.  Some of it I saw then, some in retrospect. There were things about high school I liked, and things I did not. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it, or wishing I had done this or that differently (although there is a long list of things I wish I had done differently). I can say that Pittsford gave me a great springboard for life. I came away with knowledge that helped me.  I could write well, was interested in reading, understood the passage of time and perspective (history), did not understand chemistry....oh well. I had been given an education, or the beginning of one. Higher education for me happened in three episodes, and I do not have much of a memory of any of those three time periods.  Not sure why that is, but my memories of Pittsford are stronger for some reason. My family remained there, so I came back often, and still do.  it is not the same place I left, but it is recognizable.  I have enjoyed the reunions and look forward to the next one, but that is not living in the past....just touching it from time to time. I make it a point to live here now, and am happy with my now. Well, maybe a little less so after the last election, but this, too, will pass.

I was particularly interested in the discussion about the change in the nature of Pittsford and the insights from both Andy and Peggy. I never noticed,, or thought about that in quite that way, and should have, maybe.  In kindergarden I rode the peanut bus (the only short one I remember) which went way out to the edge of the district to pick up the kids in the "country".  Today, it is not "the country" at all.  I also rremember all of the various working farms in town, and the barn/horse arena on Palmyra at Marsh Road.  Pittsford was not really rural, but it had those aspects.  Thanks to you both for bringing those thoughts back into focus.  Pretty perceptive.

That is it for now.  Good conversation.

Doug P. Allen

Hey, Andy... you should have joined the debate team.... ;-).... We might have won at least one of those tournaments against all the Rochester area Catholic high schools that really "waxed us".... Of course, they prepared all summer and were ready.  We prepared most often the week before those debate tournaments.    It was a great experience, even though it wasn't the popular choice of activities.

As for the rest... Yep, we were a lilly white high school..... I won't feel guilt about that, however.  Housing discrimination was very real at the time (still is to some degree).  Our parents (assumption here).... lived in the Pittsford Central School District to afford us the very best high school education possible.  My parents even fought for the inclusion of Allen Creek School in the Pittsford Central District (v. Brighton).   Despite being lilly white, I learned a tremendous amount from ONE teacher...Sally Covington.  She was awesome!

It bothered me that I was among those who were "vertically challenged" in high school... but hey, that's heredity.  It hasn't been an impediment to my life nor to my happiness.  

I'm thankful for the experience whether it was 100% positive, or a bit of a mix.  I still have some great friends as a result, and do appreciate them!  

Dan...what you said really hit the mark....

Dan Goodenow

Guys, Just back to Gloucester from an early RI site visit for a vet hospital project and drove through the bad roads only to get to my Boston parking garage and found it filled with cars for the Patriot's Rolling Rally!  Our office is about 1.5 blocks from the parade route.  No parking for my monthy pass vehicle so I headed home.  Early day started at 5 am so I won't write much right now.

Dave, great to hear from you.  I remember you playing the left DB with Tobin as safety and me as right DB.  I can still remember certain plays; good and bad.  As I said, I don't have any bad memories of PCS except maybe losing to DiVincenzo 4 years in a row, in the school wrestling comp.  We would both make it to the final in our weight class and then he'd pin me on the same move, 4 years in a row.  Mueller would just laugh at me in a "you'll never learn" kind of way.  I'd love to know what Rick's move was.

My favorite memories were with the band.  A shout out to you Paul in that he forgot to mention Diek and Barker as bandmates.  Kropp played the keyboard and on a couple of songs, doubled up with John Barker on the trumpets.  John would also help with the sound and lights.  Paul, I also remember you hanging with us in our practice space at Boston's house.  Bob also said you gave him a recording I think you made.  He made copies of it and distributed it to all of us.  It actually wasn't too bad for an old reel-to-reel and my kids all got a kick out of hearing me play and sing, in I believe, 9th grade.  Very heart warming and funny at the same time.  We all thank you so much....

Doug, yes I remember that horse farm at the corner on Marsh Road.  The town did have a bit of a "farm town" feel to it.  I actually worked a summer at Sweeney's Corn Farm.  Tough job in the early morning when the corn was wet!  65 ears to a bag I remember.  I wonder it the farm is still there.

When I go back to the handfull of towns I've lived in over my years, I think they have all changed quite a bit.  I guess it's the nature of progress.  Changing for good or for bad, just like us...

Keep writing,

Dan

David 0. Hughes

Dan;

I think Sweeneys might still be there.  I know that Powers is there and going strong.  The Pittsford Dairy has grown, is really busy, and has the best ice cream. The town looks the same, but is not the same. Hicks is there, but nothing like it was. Burdetts is gone and I have no idea what is there now. Main St. and State St. are almost always jammed with cars, so knowing how to "go around" in Pittsford helps now. Schoen Place is always busy, and the canal has become a major attraction.

I gather that you are in Mass.?  My grandparents lived for a while in Rockport.  Cape Ann is pretty.  Have you seen Manchester by the Sea?

Robert E. (Bob) Koster

Dave and Dan, Sweeny's farm is still there, but some time (maybe late 70's, early 80's) they sold it to the town.  This was part of a movement by the town to preserve "green space".  I believe the farm is now operated by Jim? Layman.  I think he may also have bought the Sweeney house.  Knickerbockers' farm is also o still there and still operated by Larry and David (again, some of these details are questionable).  I never worked the farm, but I knew Bob Sweeney and he let a bunch of people snowmobile there in the late 60s.  I still live in the village.  Dave, my brother Frank built a house for your dad.

David 0. Hughes

Bob;

You brother built a great house and did several remodels over the years.  My Dad just passed away in October and they had to finally sell the house last summer after 57 years.  It is hard to think of someone else living in it, but all things change.

David 0. Hughes

Not sure about smoking dope at Powdermill, but Shady Grove was the place.  I went there a few months ago....it no longer is a place.  The road is a service road and mostly gone.  You can walk back to it, which I did. I remember filling that area up with cars.  I also don't recall Turk Hill.  I was not as in synch as I thought.

I only remember your house on Marsh....have driven by it a thousand times over the years. Did not remember that you moved into the village.  Your house there actually sounds kind of interesting.  Had a paper route too for five years or so.  80 papers on Sunday after two feet of snow was always fun.

Did you ever walk under the canal in Irondequoit Creek?

Dan Goodenow

Dave, I got a phone call and didn't get back to your questions about Massachusetts.  In a nutshell, after college at Penn State, I spent about 10 years in Philly.  First two years I was stationed as a Vista Volunteer providing architectural services in various parts of the, as they say now, "hood".  From there I did end up in MA for the remainder of my life. For the past 32 years or so, I've lived in Gloucester which is next to the town of Rockport that you wrote about.  I actually had an office in Rockport for as short time and served on their historic district commission.  It's a beautiful town and will most likely stay that way because of the strong, but older, preservation mindset.  It's become a retirement destination for folks who can afford a small place there and one down south for the winters.  I don't plan to go anywhere south because I like the winters.

As for the movie, "Manchester By The Sea", I haven't seen it.  Ellie did see it and wasn't that fond of it.  Her being a former deckhand and cook on fishing boats thought all the fishing related storyline was bogus.  She also felt the movie didn't conclude in a complete way.  I'm not big on movies in that I think I don't even see one per year.  I tell folks I'll read books and watch movies when I get old!  :)  She did feel the Perfect Storm book and movie was pretty much spot-on.  She knew most of the real people of that movie in that it was based on events back when she was on the water.  And for all you ladies out there, she got to hang with George Clooney at the cast party.  I had no problem with it because we had just started dating about the time the movie came out.  Can we declare that I rangled her away for George?  :)

As for smokes and pot, (my boys always laugh at me when I call it "pot"), I didn't do anything in high school except beer and ripple wine.  I didn't even know pot was around PCS.  I always figured it was a college thing.  That sure was true in 1970.  It's funny how our band sang songs about drugs but none of us did them in HS.  I don't think any of the guys did.  Oh wait, that's right, Bob Legge was a junkie!  :)

As for the parking spots, I'll hang on to my memories and secrets.  I do remember Ellen and me running into Phil Schreyer and Cindy Bol at Arby's a couple of times, late at night, on a Friday evening, out breaking the pregame football curfew for a Saturday game.  In our surprise to run into each other, we didn't speak much but instead mostly exchanged little bad boy smiles.  How freaking innocent it seems now...

Bad to the Bone...

PS.  Good to read some of the farms are still around.  I'll have to look for Sweeney's the next time I visit the area.  Oh yea, paper routes.  I had a small one, 30 or so houses, back in PA in the 5th grade until we moved.  Good business training for all of us I suppose.

Dan Goodenow

Andy,

Yes the drinking age was 18.  I actually registered for the draft a day early so I could have my "drinking I.D."  We were actualy buying well before our 18th with Greg Wolf's fake I.D.  We thought he seemed the most mature out of our crew.

Regarding fast food, Kropp, Legge, Barker and I worked at Carol's Hamburgers all through high school unless it was sports season. Students we knew also got special perks with the food.  Bad boy stories,about the place, I'll let the other guys tell.  Cheeseburger was 25 cents.

Dan
 

David 0. Hughes

Well, this is kind of fun.  No pot in high school either, although it did not take long in college.  Do you remember Hotel Stephanie?  On State St. near the train station. Big front steps up to the bar, and if you could walk up those steps, you could buy beer.  Of course the driver's licenses were paper and riduculously easy to alter.  I think I was 18 at least two years early.

Doug P. Allen

Funny to read some of this... My first job was at Arby's, Andy... With no training at all and a manager who was not a fan of mine, I lasted a full 3 days during the summer between my Junior and Senior year.  Senior year summer was Carrolls - didn't pull too many closings (Dan, I think that was where you, Barker and others developed those stories)....I do remember something about dead flies hidden under pickles, and some vague memory of milk shake fights.... I think that the Arby's "experience" spooked me to the point where I've made sure not to ever have a day without full employment since college graduation...

As for the drinking age of 18, that well... was just don't get caught until you're 18.  I kept my pre-legal alcohol consumption pretty well out of sight and infrequent.  After 2/22/68, however.... I think, if I remember, I did have some fun....but sadly I drank the cheap stuff, stuff I wouldn't touch today.  Does anyone remember the mid-week party at Pat Flynn's house senior year?....right before most of us skipped classes, rode bicycles through the hallways, etc?

College summers were mostly about summer jobs at the Monroe County Water Authority (interesting experience I got into thanks to Lanny Traber's and his mom) and working in the Kodak Apparatus Division offices out in Gates, counting parts in the warehouse, and spending Friday lunches at the old Elmgrove Inn (I think), chugging a full pitcher of Genny Cream Ale before wasting the afternoon once back at work..... .

Nancy Topham (Mueller)

Chris Lupinetti (Huntoon)

I agree with Nancy. Anyone working in any job be it full time or part time, fast food or anything else is not a "loser". 

Brian Terho

Pretty self pretentious

Doug P. Allen

Andy, how could you remember my glorious full 3 days at Arbys?  lol... The firing from the manager (not the sleeping assistant) gave me one thing that actually served me well in life.... fear of unemployment.  Good news was that there was little cost to me as a teenager at that time to use that as motivation later in life.

As for "life's losers".... Hey, that all depends on our perspective.  There is honor in ALL work in my mind.   There are many different aspects of life that one might value....work is not always at the top of the list.  That's ok...Eventually, none of us will get out of this life alive...so achievement in work life or career won't be the most critical factor of all.  I think the most critical factor will be how we treated others and how we dealt with those less fortunate......